I disagree - anytime I visited Portugal and said "scottish " the wonderful Portuguese knew exactly where I was from. The English do appear to drop the "British" title when it suits them given their air of self importance.....
Oh in that case, I’ll defer to you and your visits, as opposed to my 26 years of living in Portugal and talking to people in Portuguese. I didn’t say they don’t know where Scotland is.
I think the key to understanding the English is that we are islanders with island natures. In England only close people kiss hello, we prefer to shuffle uncomfortably when we say hi to people we know or shake hands with strangers (whilst desperately trying to fix their face with their name).
In Italy (where we are a lot of the time) we try to assimilate by saying hello with the double kiss Italian style even though this is excruciatingly familiar for most English people meeting acquaintances. But, with formalities executed, we ping straight back into our cultural ways of formality and distance. Confusion follows- the just kissed stranger thinks they are now on touching terms and is totally bewildered to find that the English person is back on their island, and defending their personal space from over familiarity.
We make it even harder for people to gauge us and how we feel about them by removing linguistic clues - having the one 'you' no formal Vous/Lei, no distinction between you singular/plural just 'you'. My advice to anyone meeting an English person is to assume they are on Lei/Vous levels of politeness until they have been out drinking with them or been invited to their house.
Another thing people get very confused by with the English is the subtle differences between being polite and being friendly (a form of politeness) - things we do with strangers, and building friendship which takes trust and time and that a gauge of friendship is the extent we take the Mickey out of our friends.
What was it Shakespeare said? 'When friendship begins to sicken and decay it useth enforced ceremonies.'
I found this recently, perhaps it explains something....'English is what happens when Vikings learn Latin and use it to shout at Germans, and then the French shout back'.
This gave me such a laugh! In the early 80's my husband and I spent a year at St Andrews University as exchange students from the US. We used to often joke that we'd never realized how much the British had invented!
In my experience, English war brides of my mother’s age, who followed their GI husbands to the US, continued into old age to maintain an extraordinarily arrogant notion of the superiority of British culture. When I pointed out that the sun had truly set on the British empire, they looked completely bewildered. Frankly, Americans spend virtually no time wondering how others view us, Brits included, yet find when traveling overseas that everyone has strong, stereotypical ideas of what an American is, mostly from our pervasive entertainment industry. We also do not spend a lot of time thinking of the sacrifices our grandparents and parents made to save Europe twice in world wars but when met with churlish behavior of the French or British, it does bring up real indignation. I will say, the one thing that really upsets Brits is when I tell them in 2018, California surpassed Britain to become the 5th largest economy in the world. This is really too explicit a reminder of their place in the world.
It's the same here, nothing is called británico other than maybe government offices and language schools. Otherwise it's always inglés. Being Canadian my somewhat "mid-atlantic" accent sometimes fools people here into thinking I'm English rather than American, which I always prefer.
"Não sou inglesa da Inglaterra, sou inglesa de África". My default one-liner, when my accent is detected. :-) That way, I deflect a lot of the preconceived notions you describe so well in your post. It also allows me to continue with my personal brand of oddness, uninterrupted, and explains my general friendliness and cheerfulness. The fact that those of us born in former British colonies are sometimes more British than the British is neither here nor there, in this situation.
After almost 17 years in Portugal, I still get Brit tourists telling me that my English is rather good, so there's that...
In the village where I lived for twelve years, I noticed a couple of English tourists in the café I frequented. While waiting at the counter to be served, I engaged them in conversation, and extended my hand with the words, "I'm Allison". They both recoiled visibly. Lol. This was noticed by the women behind the counter, to whom I said, in Portuguese, something about my hands being clean and free of disease... To the English, I said "Suit yourself. I thought you might have needed some help". And snubbed them when I saw them a couple of days later. I can be English, too.
Curious. I look like a foreigner, still have an accent despite fluent Portuguese and 37 years in Portugal, but foreigners think I'm Portuguese, and Portuguese often say "you're one of us now". They're being kind, of course. I'm a half-breed form, never truly English any more (I stand too close to people and kiss them, for gawd's sake), but never fully Portuguese.
I so get you! I’m an honorary tuga amongst some of my pt friends and fam, too. And my English family find me a BIT WEIRD (weirder than normal, that is)
I disagree - anytime I visited Portugal and said "scottish " the wonderful Portuguese knew exactly where I was from. The English do appear to drop the "British" title when it suits them given their air of self importance.....
Oh in that case, I’ll defer to you and your visits, as opposed to my 26 years of living in Portugal and talking to people in Portuguese. I didn’t say they don’t know where Scotland is.
Great article.
I think the key to understanding the English is that we are islanders with island natures. In England only close people kiss hello, we prefer to shuffle uncomfortably when we say hi to people we know or shake hands with strangers (whilst desperately trying to fix their face with their name).
In Italy (where we are a lot of the time) we try to assimilate by saying hello with the double kiss Italian style even though this is excruciatingly familiar for most English people meeting acquaintances. But, with formalities executed, we ping straight back into our cultural ways of formality and distance. Confusion follows- the just kissed stranger thinks they are now on touching terms and is totally bewildered to find that the English person is back on their island, and defending their personal space from over familiarity.
We make it even harder for people to gauge us and how we feel about them by removing linguistic clues - having the one 'you' no formal Vous/Lei, no distinction between you singular/plural just 'you'. My advice to anyone meeting an English person is to assume they are on Lei/Vous levels of politeness until they have been out drinking with them or been invited to their house.
Another thing people get very confused by with the English is the subtle differences between being polite and being friendly (a form of politeness) - things we do with strangers, and building friendship which takes trust and time and that a gauge of friendship is the extent we take the Mickey out of our friends.
What was it Shakespeare said? 'When friendship begins to sicken and decay it useth enforced ceremonies.'
Absolutely! The whole kissing thing here is *an issue*
Must dig out one of my diatribes about it :))
I found this recently, perhaps it explains something....'English is what happens when Vikings learn Latin and use it to shout at Germans, and then the French shout back'.
And the French shout back like this!! https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7xdwwr?fbclid=IwY2xjawLoZ5tleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETB5NFN0VmxvWjd2WnlYeVJXAR7qZoNC2W2af7-F1ey8As9my9YJ0KCtIeqKX_BQaPqkQ8CiKaSHwTFlxWQQiQ_aem_xn-oqYw_RrNgo5VD8biQbA
Haha yeah
This makes loads of sense! And I just always love reading your clever and humorous words. Happy weekend !
Thanks lovely!
This gave me such a laugh! In the early 80's my husband and I spent a year at St Andrews University as exchange students from the US. We used to often joke that we'd never realized how much the British had invented!
Haha! Yes… you thought the Wright brothers were American? Edison? Nah ;)
In my experience, English war brides of my mother’s age, who followed their GI husbands to the US, continued into old age to maintain an extraordinarily arrogant notion of the superiority of British culture. When I pointed out that the sun had truly set on the British empire, they looked completely bewildered. Frankly, Americans spend virtually no time wondering how others view us, Brits included, yet find when traveling overseas that everyone has strong, stereotypical ideas of what an American is, mostly from our pervasive entertainment industry. We also do not spend a lot of time thinking of the sacrifices our grandparents and parents made to save Europe twice in world wars but when met with churlish behavior of the French or British, it does bring up real indignation. I will say, the one thing that really upsets Brits is when I tell them in 2018, California surpassed Britain to become the 5th largest economy in the world. This is really too explicit a reminder of their place in the world.
I’ve known a handful of those types (and younger, obvs, than GI brides) and I never get how they hold on to those ideas of superiority forEVER.
I love the idea of itchy Brits when you tell them about California :))
It's the same here, nothing is called británico other than maybe government offices and language schools. Otherwise it's always inglés. Being Canadian my somewhat "mid-atlantic" accent sometimes fools people here into thinking I'm English rather than American, which I always prefer.
"Não sou inglesa da Inglaterra, sou inglesa de África". My default one-liner, when my accent is detected. :-) That way, I deflect a lot of the preconceived notions you describe so well in your post. It also allows me to continue with my personal brand of oddness, uninterrupted, and explains my general friendliness and cheerfulness. The fact that those of us born in former British colonies are sometimes more British than the British is neither here nor there, in this situation.
After almost 17 years in Portugal, I still get Brit tourists telling me that my English is rather good, so there's that...
I’ve been told “you’re English, but you’re friendly!”
In the village where I lived for twelve years, I noticed a couple of English tourists in the café I frequented. While waiting at the counter to be served, I engaged them in conversation, and extended my hand with the words, "I'm Allison". They both recoiled visibly. Lol. This was noticed by the women behind the counter, to whom I said, in Portuguese, something about my hands being clean and free of disease... To the English, I said "Suit yourself. I thought you might have needed some help". And snubbed them when I saw them a couple of days later. I can be English, too.
More for the rest of us!
Eeew how mad!
Their loss. Never were they to experience the delights of the delicious carob cake baked in-house. :) The best in all of the Algarve!!
I’m curious. After 25 years, are there circumstances where you feel you pass as Portuguese?
Almost never. I do pass as not English, but everything about me screams “not Portuguese”, from my accent, to my attitude, to my stance… everything!
Curious. I look like a foreigner, still have an accent despite fluent Portuguese and 37 years in Portugal, but foreigners think I'm Portuguese, and Portuguese often say "you're one of us now". They're being kind, of course. I'm a half-breed form, never truly English any more (I stand too close to people and kiss them, for gawd's sake), but never fully Portuguese.
I so get you! I’m an honorary tuga amongst some of my pt friends and fam, too. And my English family find me a BIT WEIRD (weirder than normal, that is)